Signs of stress in searching

[Sarah SorlienParticipant]

I know Lily has a “tell” when I am asking her to do something difficult. She stops and scratches. She does once in her video exercise I posted when she is having a hard time finding the third hide (which was different in intensity than the other two, and was near the furniture.)

When she started tracking and trailing, the teacher and I used the reducing frequency she would stop to scratch as a sign of her becoming more comfortable/confident with the task.

I am thinking when she is doing this maybe I should dial down the difficulty and focus on some easy successes to rebuild her confidence.

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

You could surely do some easier searches. Consider also lowering your criteria. Don’t wait to reward once she hits a hide, get in there FAST and make it fun again! 🙂

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

[Stefanie AlexanderParticipant]

I agree about doing some easier searches with a party at the hide. When Prim is stressed while searching, she often lets out a brief cry of frustration and looks at me. The best way I’ve found to get her re-engaged is to do an easy search where I know that she’ll be quickly successful at locating that hide. The trick is, as Kim states, is the FAST rewarding (which I’m still working on–this is something I need to improve as a handler). Prim responds really well to verbal praise as well as treats to reaffirm that her nose knows 🙂

[Susanne HowarthParticipant]

Good discussion. When Blackie thinks I’ve made it too hard, she sits down in the middle of the search area and talks to me in full paragraphs — not barking, but explaining that she hasn’t a clue where it is and am I sure she hasn’t already found all of them and couldn’t I please give a girl a hand??? NOW??? Of course, sometimes, mid-discourse, she finds that missing hide. ? but I agree: fast payment, lowered criteria, and easier hides are good tools when this kind of thing happens.

Interestingly enough, on this lesson, when I redid Part A and kept her searching for a full minute without payment (she was paid 3 times before), she did NOT exhibit this “help NOW” behavior.

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

I wonder if because she did get paid 3x plus you gave her a “good girl” it helped?

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

[Susanne HowarthParticipant]

Interesting thought, Kim, which I hadn’t considered. You could be right, OR I think it equally possible that her frustration level is highest when she also knows there IS something else there, and she can’t tell me where it is — whether because she can’t solve the problem or because I’m not “listening.”

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

HA! I love your last line! Could be! 🙂

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

[Susanne HowarthParticipant]

I’m trying to catch up on what’s going on with class, and found myself rereading this thread this afternoon. In particular, Kim’s comment that perhaps Blackie didn’t get frustrated because she’d been paid 3 x AND got an “atta girl” resonated in light of volunteering at this weekend’s NW3 trials. I was in the score room on Saturday, and one of the comments I saw one of the judge’s (a K9 Police Officer and trainer) write on several score sheets was to the effect of “good job of praising your dog to get him to leave a hide you’d already found.” Clearly, he finds that praise to be a form of reward! I also heard him comment yesterday — to his team of steward, timer and videographer — that one of the teams that had just competed did NOT do a good job of this. The handler had pulled the dog off the found hide, without any verbal acknowledgment, and the judge’s comment was along the lines that if he were the dog he wouldn’t bother looking for any more odor, because clearly the handler didn’t value what he’d already found. Interesting perspectives…

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

People forget that praise IS a form of reward for the dog. Touch (for some), verbal praise and acknowledgement are all things that can sustain a dog in a search. Just like us, they need to know they’re doing something right. 🙂

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

[Sarah SorlienParticipant]

At a recent dog training workshop the teacher told us we always should use the order Praise – touch – treat. The idea was the treat was the highest reward so linking touch before it elevated the reward value of the touch. Similarly the value of the praise was raised by association with the touch…

[Susanne HowarthParticipant]

Interesting feedback, Sarah, especially the “always” 🙂 At a seminar with Ron, he told us we should ALWAYS do something, and about 90 seconds later told me to do the exact opposite as Blackie was searching!

Anyhow… regarding the reward sequence, that does seem to make some sense. However, a slightly different take on it that I have heard and which seems to work for us is to keep my mouth shut until such time as I’m AT source, with my dog, paying her — be it via praising or feeding or petting. (I usually use only the first two, probably in part because my girls are tiny, so the vigorous pet on the side you big dog handlers use wouldn’t go over big with my little girls and also because I have a treat in my hands and both of us are anxious to get that to the dog and get back to work.)

Staying quiet until I’m at source seems to help keep my dog AT source, since they know that is where I will reward.

[Sarah SorlienParticipant]

Yes, the “always” can be a sign that it isn’t…. This was at a trick workshop, but it made sense for me. I don’t usually use touch in the search except when she is re-visiting a previously found hide.

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

For some dogs the “touch” can be over stimulating or for others something averse, so I would hesitate to believe anything that comes with the word “always.” However, those are often rewards to the dog so you need to know in what order they affect your dog(s). 🙂

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

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