Q5 From Terri

[Terri Spaeth-MerrickSpectator]

Part 5:

** These questions are geared towards the “average” class and “average” dog/handler. **

Do you:

• Discourage or encourage handlers using cues such as “find it” or “alert” while they are still on primary
• If encouraged when do you start having them do that

(I lean towards NOT having them using cues that until the dog has consistent and strong hunt drive and search behavior and the handler has a solid understanding of the use of the cues and their value and can also readily see basic “odor behavior” in their dog.)

Terri

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

I don’t generally care either way. I suggest they not say anything since it often turns the dog’s focus onto the handler and the handlers can start to babble. But some dogs need “permission” to begin searching. Especially dogs who have a lot of other training history. Once the handler gives that permission I remind them to not speak unless their dog has found the hide and then praise is ok.

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

[Brooke PeciukasParticipant]

I don’t encourge “alert”. My thoughts are it would becomes like a marker (clicker, YES) which I don’t use in NW. I tell them week 2 or 3 to think of search cue. And then they can add it around week 4. I tell them it’s more for them because the dog is going to search reguarless. But a log of people like to have a cue for it.

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

Yes, good reminder Brooke – “alert” does become a marker which I also do not recommend. I have students use “alert” when they’re prepping for their first ORT and first trial but I suggest they use an alternate way of communicating so the dogs don’t get too fixated on the word. And I definitely tell them NOT to use it when they know where the hides are. (Again, different course and doesn’t really affect the Intro students. 🙂 )

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

[Kathy HatchParticipant]

Everything you all said!  I suggest they use a cue the dog already knows on primary but once the dog is on odor, to thoughtfully choose a personal search cue.  I tell the story of being at a Mock Sniffers and new and excited handlers using the most common search cues over and over to their dogs.  I heard several other dogs screaming in their vehicles, “I can find it”, after hearing the handler repeat several times, “Can you find it? Are you gonna find it?  I know you’re gonna find it!”

[Deb (De) FrostParticipant]

I try to make a point of telling students from day one that we won’t be using what will be their ultimate search cue (Find it! Seek! Lolli-pops! Whatever) until we introduce actual Odor to the dogs … and even then, I tend to hold off until 2-3 weeks into an Intro to Odor class before adding it in. My thought is the dogs should have a clear idea of what they are hunting for first.

Initially, I ask students to just use a release word like ” Let’s go! ” or “Cookies!” I doubt telling the dog to find it on primary will break the dog ?, but it just seems clearer (not sure that’s the right word) to wait.

[Lynn MedlinParticipant]

Gosh so good to learn that we aren’t giving the dog a search cue in the Intro classes any more. This is new information for me and it sure makes sense.

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

Lynn, I think some people still do. There’s no real harm in it but it’s not really necessary IMO. The dogs understand the context of the game by seeing the boxes and the class.

I will say that some dogs need to be released by their handlers, often those who are so used to being told what to do in other sports or activities. Just saying “ok” is enough to get them started and then the handler can practice not saying any more. 🙂

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

[arleigh BellParticipant]

If the handler does many sports with their dog I find they want to give a command to search… I support both… if the want to say find or search l encourage it for that class. However in the second class I have them say nothing… I want them to see how the dog works. Then we have a discussion about cues & who the cue is for or supports the best.  In most cases the handlers prefer to watch & listen & chose to let their dog hunt in the quiet… I also explain that there is lots of time for ongoing discussion about when cues are most valuable for the dog.

[Catherine GryniewiczSpectator]

Thanks for the insight on calling alert when on primary.  I have husband that comes with his wife to the classes.  She has been to trial with her other 2 dogs I work with.  She was sick but and asked him to start their 8 month old pug.  During the classes and the taping of the session he called alert when Angel found the hide/treat.  I was surprised, but didn’t think too much of it until this discussion.  Thanks!  Will adjust….  🙂

[Joy RittierodtParticipant]

When it is time to discuss the search cue one thing that I recommend to my students is making sure that if they are (or plan to)  do barn hunt that their word is different from NW. I just had a student tell me that she was now doing barn hunt and couldn’t understand why her dog spent so much time just sniffing around the room and bales of hay but did not care about the rat. We decided that he thought he was doing what she asked because she had used the same cue to start the search. She came back this week and told me that she decided to use “Go Find” strictly for NW and would now use “Go Hunt” for Barn Hunt. I did caution her that her dog COULD still be unsure because most dogs will pick up on the first syllable of a command so saying “Go” with both might still cause some confusion on the part of the dog. One could argue that a dog should be able to tell the difference by the set up of the search area…..until they show up at an NACSW trial where the interior search area was filled with bales of hay and a hay wagon. (It has happened!)

[Mary SkirchakParticipant]

I haven’t been using Alert in the intro classes, just praise for the dog when they find the food.

Also I’ve had students come from other classes at the intro and NW1 levels who have spent their entire search saying find it repeatedly.  I’ve encouraged not doing this by giving a class where they were not aloud to say anything once they entered the search area.

[Valerie CasperiteParticipant]

Joy, that’s an interesting point you brought up.  I neither encourage nor discourage handlers’ use of a cue while dogs are on primary, but I do advise that if they play “find it” games at home or in any other context (ie barn hunt) that they use a different cue.  Dogs can be very specific about cues.  One of my dogs was (still is) ball crazy as a puppy and prior to knowing about  Nose Work I used to hide his ball and tell him “go find it”.  He is a German Shorthair.  I took him to a field when he was about 5 months old to introduce him to quail.  I could see a group of them running around in the brush.  He caught their scent and was very excited, but as soon as I said “go find it” he ran in the other direction looking for his ball!!

That said, I think that over time they can figure out that the cue means to search for something and the context tells them what to search for.

[Terri Spaeth-MerrickSpectator]

For my students that start with me they get an early discussion about cues and when to use them and that I mostly want them to remain quiet or joyful at the find or supportive and happy when the dog needs some interaction.

I had an interesting thing happen with one student who started with me, she was mostly quiet and was using a starting “find it” cue.  She went and volunteered at an NW1 and NW2 trial one weekend and the next week came to class was was saying “find it” “find it”, “find it” throughout her first search, horrified, I kindly asked why she was doing that.  Her honest response was “I heard lots of people at the trial doing it, so I thought I should be”  …aargh!!!!!!

We straightened that out then and there…!!!

[arleigh BellParticipant]

I use “find your odor” only when my boy requires cuing…I started my girl with “search” but I don’t use anything anymore… I encourage handlers to let their dogs be, to sort it out themselves (do you show/tell your dog there is a turkey cooking in the oven?) ….. no cues in primary only with odor for the dog teams I work with in classes.

Routine set up before & after each run cues your dog ?

[Terri Spaeth-MerrickSpectator]

I agree, you really don’t need to say anything!  The dog knows what they are there for.

I have found that some students, typically those who do a lot of other sports that involve cues, seem to “need” a cue for nose work, so we talk about overuse, but I am fine if they want to use a “start searching” cue, as it seems to work for the handler—regardless of whether the dog cares or not!

 

[Kimberly BuchananKeymaster]

As long as my dog is ready to search I don’t need to use any cues. I think sometimes students LIKE the idea of a search cue. They think it adds to the “cool-factor.” So I don’t really object as long as it’s not distracting to the dog. And gawd no, please do not keep repeating it as the dog searches! 😀

Kimberly Buchanan
Joyride K9 Dog Training

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