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NW601: Sarah & Angie (Beagle/Brittany mix, PA)

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    • #8944
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      Angie and I have been doing nose work since 2011 and have been training at elite level since 2015. With each training session or trial I am amazed that the journey is not over yet. She has become an AWESOME searcher with such enthusiasm and efficiency. It’s always been there but I swear she has gotten even more awesome over the last 6 months. We have had some great and not so great elite trial performances.

      My goals for this class are to learn as much as possible to be the best handler I can be. It is a gift to get into an elite trial at this point and if/when we do get into one this year, I want us to be our best. I never had Nationals as a goal until I saw how capable she is of getting there. Being points based many of the mistakes that decreased our score were my fault – not calling a finish, not trusting on a high hide, not calling a normal height hide because i was too tired and not thinking right, etc etc.

      My goal for Angie is to keep challenging her and increasing her ability to find close converging, being confident with high hides, and experiencing new hide placements to increase her catalog of experiences. and we may need to revisit containers/distractors in case that ever pops up in an elite trial again.

      Last, at a recent sniff thru I noticed Angie and I have great team work in “elite” type searches with lots of hides in a search area. But get us back into a search area with only 1 or 2 hides and we are a mess as a team. She is hyper vigilant at detailing everything and I start to guess where a hide may be, and I make her double check even thought she has already checked and moved on.

      Oh and of course a goal is for us to have fun during these cold and snowy winter months!!!

      Sarah

    • #8945
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      Welcome back Sarah & Angie! Glad to see you’re still enjoying the game! 🙂

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9062
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      Ok, video 1. It is 5:30. I was going to cut out the last search with 5 hides, but I think it shows great improvement in efficiency.

      Run 1: hide on door, guess is 10 sec, actual 9.42 sec
      Runs 2: hide on door guess is 10 sec, actual is 7.06 / hide on chair to right of threshold guess is 1:20 actual is 52.70sec
      Run 3: hide on door guess is 15 sec, actual is 11 sec / hide on chair guess is 20 sec, actual is 27 sec / hide on wheel of push cart guess is 1 min, actual is 1 min 10 sec
      Run 4: hide on chair guess is 2 sec, actual is 2 sec / hide under middle of table guess is 30 sec, actual is 22 sec / hide on door guess is 1 min, actual is 32 sec / hide on wheel of push cart guess is 2 minutes, actual is 1 min 48 sec
      Run 5: hide on chair guess is 2 sec actual is 2 sec / hide on door 10 sec, actual 10 sec / hide on wheel of push cart guess is 15 sec, actual is 20 sec, hide under middle of table guess is 30 sec, actual is 35 sec / hide on pink crate guess is 1 min, actual is 46 sec.

      At some point I added in the red stool, thinking it would help be an anchor in between the converging odors, but it may have hindered???

      NOTE: You’re doing it correctly! It is a technical glitch, hopefully temporary. In the meantime I will “fix” the videos so you can view. ~ Kim

    • #9092
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      The first thing I notice is HOW HAPPY ANGIE IS! Wow, what a difference from prior classes! If I recall correctly, she had dental work, no? Did you notice a difference after that? Or is it the fact that you still pay for every find, whether it’s a repeat or not??

      Two other things that I noticed is that Angie seems to need to work the existing find(s) first and then she’ll work the “new” hide. Not sure if that’s working from memory or the scent picture?

      Also, once she gets paid for a hide, she sometimes does go back to a hide but does not expect to be paid.

      Your guesses on the hide finds is pretty good! This takes skill when you’re used to a slower, more methodical dog vs. a perkier bouncier version. 😀

      Any other thoughts from you? Go ahead and post the part B of the Interior searches when you’re ready. 🙂

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9099
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      I know!!! Her energy level has definitely changed since this summer. The heat always slows her down, but yes I think the dental surgery may have helped in some way. I have generally always paid for repeat finds unless its excessive. But I have upped her rewards and varied them from week to week so I think that has helped increase enthusiasm too.

      In terms of memory vs scent picture I think its both, as sometimes the order of what she found did vary. She is getting really good at moving off already found hides when i tell her find more, but what’s funny is she will stick strong on particularly hard or inaccessible hides and demand to be paid more for finding them. Once treat isn’t enough.

      Here is part B:

      5 hides all at one time
      Hide 1 on chair my guess 30 sec, actual 25 sec
      Hide 2 on rim of bucket, my guess 45 sec, actual 43 sec
      Hide 3 on front of mini fridge, my guess 50 sec, actual 50 sec
      Hide 4 in bathroom on shelf straight ahead, my guess 1:15, actual 1:24
      Hide 5 low on white cart near door, 2 min, actual 1:46

      I am scary good at estimating time but I tend to run searches in trials up to the end when there is an unknown #, and if there is a known # and we can’t find a hide I run it right to the end, sometimes missing that finish call because i see her working the problem out and want her to get it.

      We are awesome in speed searches with known #, somehow she is very speedy and its easy to know when to call finish!

    • #9127
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      Excellent work! Interesting that the lip of the bucket took her awhile to solve. That is not necessarily an “easy” hide with the channeling all the way around the bucket. Plus, with all the other things adjacent the dog needs to sort thru a lot. 🙂

      Your guesses are super!

      Ok, is it possible to work Exterior for Part C? Not sure what the weather is doing?

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9129
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      Sometime between tomorrow and this weekend will be possible. Weather should be getting better after today. Snow/Ice & cold wind – yuck!

    • #9167
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      Assignment 3 – 5 hides outside. It was a nice extremely windy day.

      Hide 1 under bench to left: guess 10 sec, actual 10 sec
      Hide 1 on sign guess 5 sec, actual 7 / Hide 2 on bench guess 35 sec, actual 32
      Hide 1 on sign guess 5 sec actual 5 / Hide 2 on step on play equipment guess 30 sec, actual 33 sec / Hide 3 on bench guess 45 sec, actual 42
      Hide 1 on sign guess 5 sec, actual 4 / Hide 2 on step 10 sec, actual 11 / Hide 3 up to the right on the play equipment 45 sec, actual 43 sec / Hide 4 on bench guess 1 min, actual 1 min
      Hide 1 on sign guess 10 sec, actual 10 / Hide 2 on step guess 20, actual 21 / Hide 4 up to the right on the play equipment guess 30 sec , actual 27 / Hide 4 on Bench guess 1 min, actual 1:01 / Hide 5 on grass in middle between start and play ground guess 1:20, actual 1:13.

    • #9180
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      Wow! Your skill at guessing the times is enviable! 🙂

      I’m still kind of stunned to see Angie running to the search area and then racing from hide to hide! So nice to see. This was a really good set of searches for you both. It can be tricky with wind but I think it helped in this case because there weren’t a lot of places for odor to collect and pool. It was bouncing off and moving through the equipment but Angie worked it like a pro.

      Curious to see how she works with a whole new set of hides. 🙂

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9195
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      5 hide exterior.

      One up on flagpole about 5 ft guess 30 sec, actual 25 sec
      One under the water fountain in the middle of the bathroom building guess 10 sec, actual 6 sec
      On on the bottom corner of the privacy fence on the right side of the bathroom building guess 45 sec, actual 43 sec
      1 low in the the pile of benches close to the front of the garage guess 1:30, actual 1:45
      1 higher in the leg of a bench flipped upside down, on the far side – this one was fun to watch her figure out and to see where she catches the odor cone strong enough to find the source. guess 2m, actual 2:10

    • #9247
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      That was so cool to watch! Hides 4 & 5 were super tough to work out and I love that Angie went back to Hide #3 a few times to get her bearings. Your leash handling is exceptional, as well. You two are really in the zone here! Nice! 😀

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9259
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      Inaccessible Assignment:

      These are out of order.

      #1 is supposed to be the inaccessible with 4 sides, it is under the wagon on a pipe that runs along the underside, about 2 feet from the wheel axle area. Turns out is was accessible. I found it interesting that when you watch the leaves it looks like the wind is blowing to the left, but the way she works the poles of the pavilion you would think the wind is blowing right. I am sure if is more of swirling mess with the roof and objects.

      #2 is actually the 2 sided inaccessible. it is between two of those metal cabinets.

      #3 is the 3 sided, it is in the middle under the seat of the bench that that is upgright, but more challenging because there is then the bench ontop of it. I found it interesting she went right to the middle and stuck her snoot in did a big sniff but left trying to get closer.

      4# the niche, or really in accessible, is on the hooks of a garbage can behind the first two. In true Angie fashion, she makes an inaccessible, accessible. Here I was surprised she didn’t alert at the space between the the garbage cans. Maybe she would have if she didn’t have the ability to get around and under the picnic table???

    • #9272
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      What’s interesting about the first search is that she fairly quickly goes to the front of the cart and indicates (:12). I’m not sure if you were waiting for more bracketing or an insistence that the hide was there? Certainly in a blind search this would be tough because she didn’t look as tho’ she had put her nose on source yet she said the hide was there. 😉 She made a GOOD decision at (:31) and I think I’d have taken that. Even tho’ we *know* the source is below there is a lot of odor coming up and around the cart. Yes, she does get to source but remember you can always ask the dog to get closer after the initial payment.

      The second search is more of the one-sided access. She does a great job! Makes a pretty quick decision.

      The third search, with 3 sides shows very good bracketing but less decision making. This is one where you could call it without the communication (look).

      The last search is really interesting! An EASY spot to miss since it’s in a niche and she’s not telling you from the front that something is there. However, SHE makes it a 2-sided inaccessible and based on the fluttering of the plastic bags it appears the wind is blowing into them and out the side. Love that she works her way around! 🙂

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9284
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      In the first search, at around :12 I think she was just underneath but did not go to source, was just moving around searching. If I were running this blind I probably would have taken the look at :31, but if I had any hesitation in calling it she did move on, so I may have continued to have her search because of that.

      For the 3rd search, I think that is one of my weak areas. We actually tried to work on it in my in person class, to call sooner, but its not in me. Some of my earlier training that really was the breakthrough to being successful at Level 3 was that the dog is the salesman, and they have to sell you on it. Don’t take anything less. I know how to read my dog and when she is in odor, but there have been moments that could have cost me an NW3 title, (and I was in MANY trials, so at that point there was no going down with your dog, it was all about getting the job done). Actually the two times I really remember were vehicle searches, one was a windy day with one hide that was pooling in the wheelwell of another vehicle. If I had called it on the amount of interest alone, we would have failed, but because I did not get that concrete final response we walked off. Second was a two pick up truck search in a barn. Again one hide, but Angie dove under the other truck without a hide. I think most would have called that interest, but there was no final response, so I did not call it. Turns out it was the manure truck that spreads the manure on the agriculture campus. So lots of interest but not the right interest.
      Even in practice I have seen Angie dive under a bunk for food and give me a questionable look on a garbage can with food in it. I am programmed to hesitate and wait for a more definitive look from her.
      So search 3, if that bench was all by itself, sure I probably would have called sooner. But if it was with alot of other stuff or windy day, I may have waited for the final response.

      ALSO, I have gotten worse at calling it earlier instead of better because in rooms with only one or two hides, she details and checks everything, so I start think there could be a hide in certain places by her interest alone. I’ve realized this about myself and do not want to take chances of calling false alerts all over the place.

      So yes, handler issues in the area of calling alerts sooner 🙂

    • #9303
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      I can completely understand your rationale. However, remember to distinguish competition/testing from training. Because you knew where the hide was you could have supported Angie by paying her for the effort.

      I’m often helping people with dogs who do not communicate when they have found odor. It becomes a vicious cycle where the handler waits too long for the dog to communicate and then the dog walks the hide. The handler then gets frustrated and doesn’t know how to get the dog to get back to the communication they’ve had in the past. My “solution” seems backwards but it has worked for many dogs and it basically involves going back to the beginning stages of building communication with the dog’s EXPECTATION of getting paid. For 2-3 weeks or so pay the dog EVERY time they get to odor, regardless of whether they communicate or not. Eventually the handler will DELAY the reward ever so slightly and the dog should LOOK at the handler wondering why they’re not getting paid. Pay the dog. Etc.

      I realize this may not be the case with Angie, but it is something to consider when you KNOW where the hide is. I know it doesn’t help when you have a falsing issue and the dog starts guessing or telling you when they’re IN odor w/o even trying to get to source. But if you see this becoming a problem, checking and bracketing but no communication consider that this might help. I would only do this with an inaccessible hide after I see the dog trying to get to source.

      Just a thought that may/may not be applicable! 🙂

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9329
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      YES! You may have to keep reminding me of that, training vs trialing. I also think because I teach, my practices with Angie on my own can turn to experimenting, and getting too focused on figuring out what the odor is doing and waiting to see how she works the problems and when she decides to communicate.

      So I may need to be reminded from time to time I am training MY dog!!!

      AND what I have noticed is that if I pay Angie early based on bracketing, sniffing, body language, whatever, she is almost insulted that I did not let her solve the problem and she goes back to finish it up.

      But I think these exercises were more simple inaccessible where I could have supported her TRAINING better by paying earlier.

      Thanks for the kick in the butt!!!

    • #9354
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      😀

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9604
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      Inaccessible Play by Play – I was on vacation last week so a little behind.  Each hide cooked about 10 minutes before we did the search.

      Hide 1 – inaccessible between two grey cabinets on the left.

      Hide 2 – in accessible in the bottom drawer of a dresser on the right.

      Hide 3 – accessible on the top edge of the plastic bins on the right.

       

      I found it interesting how she was sourcing the first inaccessible.

      In the third search I realized my body movement/placement had a lot to do with moving her around the search area. She was really stuck on the two hides.

    • #9614
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      Hm, trying to figure out if you “mis-wrote” the info about the hides?

      Was the first hide sourceable or inaccessible between the cabinets? If it was inaccessible Angie should have been paid when she first communicated, no? If it was sourceable it’s good you waited. 🙂

      Second hide inaccessible in drawer, third hide sourceable on the bin? Correct?

      It’s a tough call whether to pay or not to pay when the dog keeps going back! I think you’re right about your body position having influence on Angie staying with those two hides on the last search.

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9618
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      Ugghh first hide was inaccessible bewteen two of those cabinets, on the right side of the first one,  but she alerted more on the left corner that first cabinet and then kind of on the top.  So in retrospect the odor was sourceable if she stuck her nose between the two cabinets but it was deep and narrow where she could not touch the source.

      So yeah I guess I should have paid when she made her choice, but I was thinking she would work closer to the source. It was not in a drawer but on the exterior between two cabinets.

      yes second in accessible in drawer and third sourceable on the bin.

    • #9619
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      Ah… ok, I understand. So the first hide being accessible you felt she should have sourced it? Reality is that she could source it so your choice to not pay her until she tried harder to get to source (and in this case was successful) was not necessarily bad. But with a decision that she’d found odor I might have paid her for the commitment. 🙂

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #9620
      Sarah Woodruff
      Participant

      Ok, Here is Part 2 – 2 accessible and 1 inaccessible hide. These hides cooked for several hours, i think anywhere between 2-4.

      Inaccessible is far back an under the larger shelving unit along the back wall. (Kim you’ll be proud I rewarded when she committed and didn’t wait for her to dive under).

      Accessible 1 on the gator wheel, Accessible 2 on the garbage can wheel.

      You can see there was alot of checking in. I have two theories for this particular search this day.  1) Angie tends to do this when she hits a “wall” of odor. She will run into a search area and just stop and look at me saying, yep its everywhere in here.  2) I ran out of normal reward, and grabbed some cheese. I think cheese is too high value of a reward hence the checking in.

      I’m not sure which it was this day, but there was more checking in than I’d like.

    • #9622
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

      I suppose it could be a little bit of both. She licks her lips when she looks at you which is what she does but more dramatically when she gets to the two accessible hides. 🙂

      The search itself was super easy for her. And she’s still showing great enthusiasm! 🙂

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

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