~JOYRIDE K9 *REMOTE* K9NW EDUCATION~

NW501: Sarah & Lily (Golden Retriever, PA)

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    • #7121
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Lily currently has her NW2 and we are hopefully working towards a NW3 this Fall, though the entry field is crowded. We have worked through most of a the NW 301 course here, but weren’t able to complete all the exercises, so I hope to work through those as well in this time frame on our own. I appreciate the structure the online class gives to training.

      I like to break things down into exercises, when possible, to practice the basic element of the task if that makes sense. Intellectually that makes sense to me and certainly is appropriate for trick work, for example. Maybe this is more of a gestalt task, though, and repeated trial condition training is more effective.

      My training challenges:

      Me: getting out of her way
      Her: Odor obedience (not Sarah obedience), persistence and stamina. I notice she does better at trials & classes in the morning rather than the afternoon. She will be napping and not interested in playing the game…

    • #7124

      Welcome back, Sarah & Lily! ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7134

      Ok, in your first lesson we’re going to look at that stamina as well as you staying out of her way!

      If you have access to an interior space that will allow for 6-8 hides, it would be ideal. What I’d like you to do is work Lily a few times prior to this search in a separate area/element. Not necessarily directly before, unless you don’t have an option to work her throughout the day but give her other searches to get her a little bit tired. Keep track of how long she searches and how long she rests between. Don’t do more than 3 prior searches with 3 minutes per search, tho’, and not all at one time.

      We’re going to work a search similar to Sarah & Angie’s with multiple hides around an interior space that are paired. I’m not concerned as much about niches and corners, tho’ that can be a bonus to work those. Mostly I’m looking for Lily to work independently, get paid for finding odor and having many reward opportunities available. When she finds a hide you can go to her, pat and praise and ask her to find more. Don’t pay her if she tries to go back to the same hide she just found.

      If she keeps returning to one or two hides instead of looking for more, go ahead and pick up the hides but give her the opportunity to work thru the challenge first. Try to keep the search within 3 minutes, even if she doesn’t get all the hides. If she’s actively working more hides, let her finish. If she gives up or looks bored, put her up. Don’t keep her working.

      I know you’ve been pairing parts of her meals which I think is great! Let’s see if she maintains her enthusiasm with this game. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7142
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Great Plan! I think I can do a long day like that on Friday or Saturday with my nutty work schedule. Til then we will pair the meals and do some searches every day.
      Thanks!

    • #7143

      Sounds good! Do whatever you need to keep her enthusiasm up! What we need to find out is whether things have just been too hard for her or if she really needs to better condition for the rigors of longer/harder searches. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7189
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Well we spent the week doing twice daily dinner hides. She was quite fast with these, especially the last few which I had elevated to nose level. Today we tried the long day protocol. All the hides were aged at least 30 min and some an hour. I managed to do all the elements!

      We started around 9 am with two exterior hides placed in the rain exterior at nose level which she found in about a minute. She was enthusiastic getting on her harness on and we worked on leash for all three elements. A few hours later we did two hides outside in containers, which was basically the same speed and enthusiasm. About 3 hours later we did three hides on three vehicles also very promptly with grandchildren watching and a pretty hot day.

      After this, the grandkids noted she was very calm, and wanted to lie down. They are a little afraid of her when she is excited, so they commented on her calmness.

      4 pm is usually dinner time. We skipped that, and around 4:30 we did the exercise in the exercise room. She does not usually search in here. There were 8 hides. She did find two I don’t show in the edited video. You will see she had a challenge with one, that I eventually did move because she was afraid of the location. The whole search was about five and a half minutes. The video clip is shorter because I learned how to edit in iMovie! With Voice Over!

      You may use this clip to demonstrate why one should use a tripod. You may also want to take some dramamine first. I am sorry for that.

    • #7196

      Wow, very interesting to see Lily hesitate to the right of the exercise machine but go right down to the water for the other hide. She looks to be working well, very driven to find odor. Even with the area she was unsure about she still continued working and finding hides.

      Aside from that section, do you feel she maintained her stamina? Is this typically what you would expect to see?

      Interesting video editing, as well! Good observations and the commentary was nice to hear. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7200
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      This morning I will repeat the exercise in the pool room without the long day build up (and with a tripod!) so maybe we can see the difference In energy that is my impression. I am glad you liked the voice over. It helped me with the process of analyzing the search so I will continue this new process.

    • #7205

      Great! ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7207
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Here is a repeat of the 8 paired hide interior. This one is from the morning, about an hour after breakfast. It had some converging odor problems that I indicate in the voice over. She found the first several hides in about a minute, and was, I think, generally more enthusiastic than the search at the end of the long day. Maybe I am projecting.

      I love watching her tail go when she gets to source!

      I was going to splice in different camera angles, but didn’t manage to turn on the second camera correctly. Something for next time.

      Note she found all the hides this time with only one help from me. I helped her with three in the afternoon and it took longer to find the first few than in the am.

    • #7227

      I really like this search! With the complications of the multiple odors she maintained her search desire and showed us when she got frustrated and began scratching. YOUR position looked good, as well! I’m guessing, since you didn’t have to be responsible for rewarding Lily, you could relax and stay back to observe. This is also a space that you don’t need to be too close to observe. Did it feel like you gave her more room than you normally would give? You went in to praise and she moved on to find another hide. Great! Also, with the last hide on the door frame, your position gave a needed “air current break” between that hide and the one on the treadmill.

      I noticed in this search that you have the cover on the pool. Could that have affected how she searched? You mention (and we saw) her hesitation at one point in the last search being too close to the water. She glances over to the pool at one point (:42) as she self-rewarded at the hide nearby, but she doesn’t show the same hesitation. You mention moving it towards the edge so it’s not as close, so maybe that’s the difference?

      What are your thoughts about the pairing of the hides and its effect on your distance from Lily while she was searching?

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7248
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I liked this search as well. I didn’t realize I had changed two variables by having the pool covered. She was a little tentative going to get the hide by the pool, so I am not sure what made it possible for her.

      I do like pairing as it allows me to stand back. Maybe it would be good to look at what happens when on leash. I do try to give her room, but mostly because I have received critiques in the past that I go in too close.

      The other positive thing with the pairing in this way is the idea that each hide is only paid once. She seems to accept that and move on to search for more. I am not sure what happens if there are no more hides with this scenario.

      What should we try next?

    • #7255

      I’d like to see this in a different environment. I think we’re on the right path. We can either explore an exterior space or a different interior but I think it’s going to be important to take her to a location where she is less familiar. Some things to consider;

      How many/what types of distractions?
      On/off-leash?
      morning/afternoon?

      I think to keep her successful we need to approach these challenges gradually and consider what new environment we’ll be using. It’s not always about multiple hides, of course, but because of what we’re working on I think it would be good to have multiples paired again.

      Thoughts?

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7261
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I think I will go offsite in the morning on leash with multiple hides. Hopefully today!

    • #7265

      One tip, when you use your camera, try to film it with a wide direction side-to-side vs. vertically. (Your second search was much easier to see. ๐Ÿ˜‰ )

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7274
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I hear you on the camera. I think I was too afraid I was going to drop it in the pool and wasn’t thinking straight.

      This is an AM, 6 hide search at a less familiar exterior location. The search lasted about 4 1/2 min and then I stayed 30 s more in the area (not shown) to see how she did when there were no more hides (she basically stopped showing interest in searching.) I edited down the search to 3 min and used two cameras.

      What I liked about this was seeing how she puzzled through the converging odor (again with the scratching, or course) and how she communicated an inaccessible hide to me. I didn’t reward her until her signal was very clear, but I could see that she knew something was “up” long before that.

      I think I could tell when she found them all. (of course I knew how many there are.)

      Also in terms of distractions, there were people walking their dogs nearby at two occasions, and that did not interest her. Only think I saw take her off task was some crittering at one point that I note in the voice over.

      See what you think.

    • #7279

      Great video to learn from! Thanks for sharing. ๐Ÿ™‚

      I mentioned this on Sue/Biscuit’s thread, as well, but when we mix paired-accessible hides with unpaired-inaccessible hides what is the dog thinking? If the dog still hunts for the inaccessible hide(s) maybe it’s not a big deal but we still need to consider the end-result of the search when the easier hides are paired for self-rewarding and the difficult hides are not. You can’t really pair them because they would still not be self-rewardable.

      In this case, I would have rewarded Lily very early for her interest and acknowledgement of the odor on the swing. Take a look at her behavior at (1:58, 2:49) instead of waiting for her to try to go UP. She did finish the problem but it took a lot of time and I think she should have been paid earlier.

      Another thing I notice is that you start out the search handling pretty well but because Lily is on leash you end up steering a lot. There *is* benefit to limiting where the dog can go (:24-25) but I want you to really look at your body language as well as the leash pressure in this search. Your shoulders are telling her you’re not paying attention to what she’s doing much of the time and instead trying to will her in a different direction (:26, 1:25, 1:55+crowding, 2:30, 2:38+).

      I LOVE the fancy video splicing/audio. It really helps to see the search and understand what is happening. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Give me your thoughts about my comments and working her on leash.

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7280
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I think I mentioned in the previous class that studies show humans can’t learn, improve and gain peak performance unless they are failing. The paradox is the dog needs to succeed to learn. I am so pleased to have unearthed some of my areas for improvement with this search!

      Also, the voice over and editing really help me too. I watch the video over and over and really think about what I am seeing.

      I take the point on the unpaired inaccessible. I could see it was frustrating for her at the time as well (nice she has such a good marker with the scratching). She is a good girl and searches so nicely for me – I feel bad I didn’t pay her sooner. (Actually I feel a little like a Tiger Mom ;)). I could tell she knew it was there, but I wouldn’t have been able to say where at a trial. I am thinking in training successive approximation is a better way.

      I think the leash handling was another version of what happened in the first video where I spent a lot of time filming the hides and not the dog. I couldn’t see my body language in that one, of course, but I wondered what I was doing and communicating to her since I obviously was focused in the hides I placed. I think some of that is because I don’t have visual memory (born that way :)) and I am a little afraid of forgetting where the hides are. Having them paired helps with that since I don’t have to worry about moving in to treat. I think maybe I will photograph them when I place them so I don’t worry about losing one.

      The other part is the competitor (cheater?) in me, I guess. I want her to get everything so I think I lead her to areas where she has missed things. That can’t be it completely, though, because I didn’t lead her to the one on the fence, for example. Mostly I think I was leading her to the elevated hide.

      Today I had the grandkids place the hides and I didn’t know where they were. The kids and their mom knew and were watching. That was off leash and with a complication of a collie. I noticed she had persistence when she got to a hide that had been unpaired by the collie, which was good, and she went to 3 of four and stopped searching. I asked her to search again and off she went to the last one which was still paired. All ground hides. I knew there were four.

      Any way my point with that story is I think I should practice more with her on leash when I don’t know where the hides are. I can try to be more of an observer,but I think it would be easier if I was responding to the environment and her search behaviors rather than controlling the environment. Does that make sense?

    • #7283

      It does. The other component, as you mention, is YOU the handler. I personally find myself getting mixed up and slightly “lost” when my dog ping-pongs and boings around in a search. It’s not as hard with Emmy but Zen likes to run laps. So I’ve started working him ON leash and clearing areas before we move on to the next. Meaning, I make sure we’ve covered what needs to be covered so I don’t need to guess where we’ve been and have not been. It’s patterned searching and doesn’t feel very pretty as we’re learning to work this together but it’s more efficient than letting my dog run circles and laps in a search area and me not remembering where we have/have not been!

      So I wonder if some pattern searching will help for YOU? I also wonder if the stamina issue is partly frustration and giving up trying?

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7285
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I am not sure about the stamina issue – I kind of think she is a little lazy and maybe not in as good physical condition as she could be. She is so funny in the evenings – she lies down on her side and my husband has to drag her by the collar along the floor – she won’t even lift up her head – to send her out to potty. On the other hand, if I squeak a squeaker, she jumps up like a rocket. Funny girl.
      (PS I am a little lazy and not in as good physical condition as I could be, so I may be projecting…)

      She is very fast and eager when we are doing tricks – and she knows a lot of them. Now she is eager for the searches again. Today while the kids were setting the hides, she knew what was up and she followed me all around the house like velcro until we went out to search. When we went to classes, though she was a little more reserved. One lady suggested she might be hypothyroid…. Then when I tried doing some tricks with her before she went to search at Ron Gaunt’s seminar, she perked right up and approached it with much more alacrity.

      That made me think it was a confidence issue. That sort of comes around to your observation of frustration and giving up. The dinner game and lots of easy quick searches seemed to help.

      We are headed up to my work in the mountains tomorrow. I don’t have anyone there to set hides for me, but I think I can do a patterned search in the back yard with containers.

      I think it would work best for me if I used a pattern that was pretty similar every time. That is sort of different from the idea I was taught to follow the dog’s choice of direction to start. How do you do it?

    • #7286

      Yes, it IS different than following the dog. This works great when either (a) there’s only one hide or (b) your dog is really good at working multiple hides. This is just one thing to try since you mentioned you have a hard time visualizing. I’m not saying this is how you should do it but I would experiment to see if it works and how it feels. Essentially you set hides initially only around the perimeter of a search area. Space them out so they’re 5-6 feet apart. Work it like a vehicle. Keep a shorter leash *if you need to* in order to keep her focused on the hides in a sequence. This works well indoors with little air current blowing things around.

      You could also practice visualization exercises but that’s not my expertise.

      Try it a few times to see how it feels. Video and merge if it’s not too long or post the first video so we can see how it works for you. It’s not necessarily about speed but keeping on task. So the challenges won’t be too difficult. You can choose to pair or not but the hides should be relatively simple. ๐Ÿ™‚

      And FWIW, you can let Lily choose the initial direction but work perimeter in this exercise, either clockwise or counter clockwise.

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7305
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      OK, I will work on this tomorrow. I think it will have to be outside as I just don’t have the space. Maybe the weather will cooperate.
      The visualization is sunk (I have aphantasia, which is an uncommon condition of basically blindness of the internal visualization system.) I work around it with internal verbal descriptions… Got me through medical school, so I guess I am adapted, but it makes me over think. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #7323

      Well, and if it makes you feel any better, I’m an Interior Designer by profession (previous life to this) working with commercial interiors so I *CAN* visualize. I still get turned around in a search when my dog is boinging around from one part of the search to another! ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7330
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      It does :). I only found out about this condition in the past year, so it doesn’t really bother me, but I realized I do things differently from others.

      Anyway we tried a patterned search with containers outdoors today. Not a lot of breeze. She had been home alone for 7 hours just resting when we did this around 3 in the afternoon. I think she wasn’t sure what the game was when we started, but she caught on quickly. We went through about 20 containers and 6 hides in under 2 1/2 minutes, and she seemed pretty happy about the whole thing.

      I am not too happy with my leash skills. I will keep working on that. I did like this search, though. Thinking I would like to try this with an exterior or room search.

      Oh and I can see I am not so good at reading directions either. I worked the perimeter here first, but I do have hides in the center column as well.

    • #7334

      I think adding Containers can either help or confuse but since Lily seemed to understand the game it was a good way to get her to systematically investigate what is in front of her. It is VERY different than letting the dog go where they want to go. In a perfect world the dog would choose a direction and find all the hides within the time frame. Reality is that it is rarely that simple.

      How did YOU feel handling in this search? (Forget the leash handling part.) Were you able to keep track of where you’d been and where she missed a hide?

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7337
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I did like the systematic approach. I felt like we checked everything, and that I was right to let her cross back over to get the missed one.

      I knew the one she had missed (and she did too, I think, but didn’t realize who was leading at first.) I had a plan in my head to go around the perimeter because I mis read the original instructions. I think I would do more of up and down the aisles systematically in a container search.

      In an interior or exterior, should I think of it like a grid? I think if I can divide it into 4-9 areas I can keep track of those.

      By the way, we are going to an obedience type workshop this weekend. Though she has her CGC, she does sometimes lunge at other dogs at trial – not red bandana, but maybe a pink one. She also barks at them when crated in the car on occasion. We are going to work on these and also the troubling behavior of bad greeting where she grabs the person’s arm (softly) in her mouth. The grandkids especially hate that behavior and keep asking me when she is going to school to learn how to be less excited.

      I want to work on all the elements that make her happy to go to compete and make this fun for her, if that makes sense.

    • #7339

      I would consider that “red bandana.” This should not be stigmatized, which is why we have our “rules” and EVERYONE should be keeping their dogs from approaching too closely. Having been a longtime agility person and now so entrenched in NW it is appalling how lax people are in this regard! It’s often a reactivity that is just saying hey, I don’t like you coming so close. And then people get mad at the dog for expressing this. Anyhow, I hope the workshop goes well! And FWIW, not all dogs need to have dog “friends.” Sometimes tolerance is enough. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      Now, regarding the “grid” type of pattern; What I’ve done is work my way around a search area and limit how far my dog gets to go as we search the perimeter. So maybe they’re a pod of chairs nearby with odor that is drifting to the perimeter. I need to decide whether to let him investigate it. Then I need to remember to go back to where we left off. So grids/quadrants is a good idea if this is how your mind thinks. My initial thought was to work perimeter like a vehicle on a short leash (without middle room hides to confuse). But I would suggest trying it like a grid to see if that works for you. I would NOT use containers this time, but either Interior or Exterior.

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7343
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I may be in a little denial. Thanks for the reality check. On the bright side she is much calmer since we moved up from the Prius to an SUV with a Variogate. Either that or the training and maturity are working as the barking is much less in the car. Except for the greeting manners these are 5% behaviors, but you are right I should observe and accept them not see what I want to see.

      So I will work on a leashed search today. Thanks.

    • #7382
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      We learned a lot this weekend at the workshop. Lily is getting the calm with other dogs around thing down nicely.

      So we are on a mission to lose some weight (both of us!) I am liking the pairing protocol we have had on the last few searches because the only treat per hide is the one she finds. Otherwise we are using her daily rations (1/3 less than before.) Honestly I think I was way too loose with the treats for training.

      Unfortunately I had some tripod issues today. There is another on the way (and the camera can sit on a stool.) Anyway, I am sorry that I couldn’t capture the whole search area. Hopefully the voiceover helps.

      This was a short ( 1 min 30 sec) patterned interior search with two hides. I made her keep searching after she found both to see her behavior.

      This was a late afternoon search and she had a lot of enthusiasm.

    • #7383

      Excellent! I know it can be uncomfortable “making” her check areas but if you were in a blind search, would you feel confident that she found them all? Interesting that she starts scratching after finding the 2 hides. I’m thinking this might be the indicator that she’s frustrated she can’t find any more hides in this search.

      Glad your seminar went well. Sounds like cutting back on food might be a good idea to keep her active – and hungry – even into the afternoon. Yeah! ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7385
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Actually I really liked the systematic checking. I felt like we were a team, and I did feel confident we checked everywhere and found them all. While she did head over to one of the hides not in our search pattern right away, she really doesn’t seem to mind looking where I tell her. It doesn’t seem to bother her when there nothing is where I ask her to check – she just searches. When she had interest in a place with no hide (from the fan) I let her check it again to be sure.

      I think I need to do some blind paired searches. I can’t really do that until next week. In the meantime I can do an exterior like this. Any other suggestions?

      When I watched it back again, I think I didn’t make enough of a party with each find. That did not seem to deter her enthusiasm. The dictum from Tracking and Trailing sticks in my mind though: “Your next search is only as good as your last party.” I did give her a lot of praise and another treat at the end of the search to reward her for searching.

    • #7395

      I think this is a good plan. Duplicate this with an Exterior search. We might fit in a Container search like this, too, afterwards. That is harder to pair, depending on your containers, but I would think on that maybe after the Exterior. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7433
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      So I really learned a lot from this search.
      I have to say the find your dinner game, reduced rations and this new pairing protocol (and maybe just doing more with her overall) seems to have really increased her odor obedience and drive to search.

      This was an afternoon search when she used to be pokey.

      I think it shows me a good strategy for her. I did try and constrain her to a patterned search, but she was telling me I was holding her back (even pulling her off odor!). She does give a clear indication when the hides are all discovered (scratching again.)

      I am thinking I will let her go find what she wants then redirect her for a systematic sweep of the area. I think that would be faster and not miss anything.

      I will be interested in your opinions. (watching again I can see I she is in odor with hide #2 when I pull her back to start the pattern.)

    • #7437

      I would agree with you that it looked to be difficult to restrain her from the middle hide and then later with the chair. When you work a search like this it is MUCH easier when you do not have hides that close. It seems unfair to restrain Lily from going to a hide. The good news is that she WAS very persistent! ๐Ÿ˜‰

      So maybe the strategy for you is to have the “plan” then allow Lily to diverge from the plan when you feel confident that she’s working a hide. The trick would be to get back to your “plan” rather then to continue following her. (Just as you mention.) It can be somewhat uncomfortable in the beginning, restraining your dog when you have let them lead the way so often. But it can be a good thing when you make sure the dog really covers the search area. Especially when you’re prone to getting lost. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      I think keeping Lily slightly hungry is helping a lot! Has she lost weight? A dog with a few extra pounds can definitely lack energy in searching so keeping a dog lean is helpful.

      Good job!

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7440
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Lily is not a fan of the smaller rations, but I think it is the best thing for her. We are in training mode. We haven’t weighed yet, but I think we have a few more pounds to go. I have a mock trial/private coaching day coming up Aug 29 and we are in a PSD trial mid September and a NW3 the end of October.

      I think I have a search strategy now.

      One thing I wonder might be a problem is distractors, particularly food distractors, with the new protocols.

      Should I try a container search with food distractors and further apart hides next?

    • #7441

      Let’s do another exterior search first, to see if things can feel a bit smoother before moving on. Your choice to follow Lily at any point but get back to your pattern/plan so you can keep track of where you’ve been. Consider if it were blind, would you feel confident that you covered everything and did you recognize the changes of behavior from Lily?

      You might need to experiment a bit with containers to see if the same strategy works or if you need to take more control. I find it harder to keep track of where I’ve been in container searches so my dogs get a bit less freedom. You will need to build this in stages to decide what works best for you.

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7456
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      This exterior search covered a larger area. I think I will do a more restricted one tomorrow. I also want to get better video of the threshold portion of the search. I had a huge problem (edited out) with the treats this time. They got stuck or became inaccessible, so that was a few minutes of the search. It is all edited out, but that interrupted the flow for me. The search was about twice as long as you see in the video.

      I did a hybrid of a patterned search and letting her lead the way. I felt confident we covered the whole area, and that I could tell when she was done. She also went with me easily to areas I wanted her to check. You can see that at the end with the repeat search of the first area of the search. She scratches there – the only time. Those were the two closest hides as well. I think she has caught on that each hide only pays once.

      You don’t see the threshold search too much in the video, but she found that one right away. She also did a nice tour of the porch for me when I asked. I think holding her at the threshold is good as she tends to go to the furthest hide first.

      I am interested in your thoughts on how things went on the sidewalk search at the very end. She missed the hide but then caught it from another angle. Can you see how I got in the way there?

    • #7459

      Overall, from what we see this search is not bad. It is so great to see Lily really investigating for more hides as you work thru the search area. And it sounds like the hybrid of having a plan but letting her diverge slightly is working pretty well for you! ๐Ÿ™‚

      At the end (sidewalk) when you wanted her to search it, one thing I noticed is at (2:19) Lily was wanting to investigate a plant (or light fixture?) and you pulled her off. I have to wonder if any of the adjacent odor was collecting there and she would have found it given the opportunity? Would you have been looking for those cues had you not known where the hide was? It’s all those subtleties that are important to take note of. If you watch the video, you can see Lily ALSO notices the light fixture AFTER the hide she passes, so I have to wonder if she’s catching odor there, as well. On the way back, fortunately you let her get slightly in front of you so she does cross over and gets the hide. ๐Ÿ™‚

      I’ll leave it up to you if you’d like to do another Exterior or switch over to Containers. I would recommend, if you’re planning to put any type of restrictions/patterning into the Container search that you first begin w/o the distractors. Just do a simple search to see if Lily responds to the pressure.

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7462
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I agree with your analysis of the sidewalk. I did follow up with another exterior search, and I think this one had a little better team work. I will switch to containers next. I just thought this one went a little better and wanted to share.

      On Monday Lily and I have a day camp of private coaching. I am interested in seeing how things go when I don’t know where the hides are. I still find it hard to step back from that when I know where they are, but I think it went a little better with this search. Let me know what you think.

      Thank you again for your time, Kim.

    • #7466

      Nice job! It looked pretty smooth! Just a little bit of direction from you and Lily took to the “pattern” nicely. The only comment is to be careful of turning your back on Lily. In the beginning, as you were navigating the path I couldn’t tell if you were watching your footing or just where to go but you turned your back on Lily so I would encourage you to try not to do that unless it’s a safety issue, of course. It always happens that there are moments where the dog recognizes odor but the handler doesn’t see it. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      Otherwise it looked good! I know we’ll be working on containers next, but when you do revisit this type of search I would work with unpaired hides to see that Lily works just as diligently. Don’t wait for too much response in the beginning, especially if you see any confusion about them not being paired. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7467
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Good observation. I wasn’t sure where the back turning occurred, but the path at the beginning was a bit treacherous. I do have a GoPro camera too, so I think I will wear that when I do these training searches to see where my focus is. (More for my learning.) I know when I was carrying the camera in the first video my focus was on the hides more than Lily.

      Containers next!

    • #7472

      Yes, having the camera at a distance for US is better but for your leaning, use whatever tools you can! ๐Ÿ™‚

      (The turned back was at the 8-second mark, but as you note the path needed your attention first. ๐Ÿ™‚ )

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7480
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Yikes, I see a turned back on this one too when I finished the first full search. We had a bad start, started over, then I stumbled in the middle of the search. Anyway, there were things I like.

      I like how well she works on a short leash. I am sure she is checking each one. I kept the first one in, because she wasn’t quite on the same page with me for that one. We stopped and started over. Also I accidentally included a low value distractor (tennis Ball) and I got to see her reaction to it. I noticed her reaction during the search, but I only figured out the tennis ball was in there when I went to break down all the boxes.

      I like that she scratches when she has found them all. It sure seems like that is what she does at least, though she also does it when she has a complicated problem.

      These weren’t paired, and she was persistent at the source, and I liked that. The tennis ball box and one other she hesitated on, but didn’t persist. Again I knew where the hides were, so maybe I would call those in a competition.

      I need to work on having two left feet.

    • #7484

      Looks like you’re starting to get to a more comfortable place! This is great!

      A couple of comments;

      Try going with a shorter leash – even a 4 or 5-foot leash – so you don’t have all the extra trailing behind or in your hand, which can make it more challenging.

      The other thing I noticed is from the time stamp of about (1:00-1:07); You comment that she’s checking all of the containers but it appears from the video that she actually skips much of the containers in that area. Now, there is no hide there but I wonder if you were less concerned because you knew where the hides were? This is where I would coach you to stop/slow your forward momentum until she investigated the container.

      Overall, tho’, a good amount of progress! ๐Ÿ™‚

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

    • #7495
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      I am trying to add my reply at the end of the thread, but I keep getting the message that it is open only to members whenever I try to access the last/latest page. I can get to the earlier ones, so let’s see where this posts. Closing and opening the browser didn’t work, though it usually does as this bug comes up often.

    • #7496
      Sarah Sorlien
      Participant

      Great that worked! It let me access the page with your last reply.

      So Lily and I spent yesterday doing five searches, most NW3 or Elite level, with Jill Marie O’Brien. I was blinded to the number and location of the hides. I learned a lot, let me list. Some particularly relate to the patterned container search.

      1. Lily did great with a 90 degree day with long searches. Enthusiastic all day long. Last search was the best, and was off leash. So endurance, one of my original concerns when starting the course, has really improved.

      2. I can see I really need to do more where I am blinded to the hides. I absolutely am influencing her and directing the search based on my knowledge of the hide locations. I think that is why I had the impression she was checking the boxes in our preceding videos and you notice she seemed to be skipping over them. I see what I want to see…

      3. Worked a short leash on a search of a big outdoor search with church pews, and that went well. Also for a speed vehicle search. Both were fine on finding hides, but not under the time limit. I did like it.

      4. Container search windy, outdoors and like the one in our video.- only one with a false alert and problems. My problems. I actually had noticed the same behavior in this last patterned search video we did. I didn’t get it though. Basically Lily showed interest in a container (not the tennis ball), but not for long. When I knew were the hides were, I ignored that behavior, but I remember thinking it odd. At the practice where I didn’t know where the hide was, I called that same behavior as an alert. Jill Marie’s observation was that I was restraining Lily with the short leash and my body language and therefore basically creating an inaccessible hide situation. She had dispersed odor and couldn’t get closer. When I let her lead me in, she found the correct box right away. Her observation was that Lily cues off of me and she is not the sort who will push past me to get to odor. I think I need to find a balance there, especially on a windy outdoor search.

      5. Jill did not believe me that Lily scratches as a nervous tic or that could be useful information. I have tried her without the harnesss, different harnesses, and in learning different skills it only comes up when she is trying to figure something out – I really did find it useful for the interior off leash. She did once after finding the first hide following a back and forth sniffing session over a small area. She hadn’t checked the whole room though. I asked her to search some more, she found another hide. I had her check one more area she hadn’t been to. She searched then scratched and I called finish correctly. It was so clear to me…

      So Lily did the best (fastest time) off leash with some direction from me. I am the weakest link ๐Ÿ™‚

    • #7499

      So sorry about the bug! Will be looking at other membership add-ins since it’s been a very buggy plug-in… ๐Ÿ™

      Kimberly Buchanan
      Joyride K9 Dog Training

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