~JOYRIDE K9 *REMOTE* K9NW EDUCATION~

NW560M: Linda and Molly,(lab/mixed, AK & Mexico)

Tagged: ,

Viewing 33 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #4601
      Linda Bath
      Participant

        Hello! Molly is a 7 year old Lab mix. Best guess she has border collie/setter in her. Never met either of her parents. We have been doing NW for the last five years and love it. Molly is much better at it than I am, which is one of the reasons why these classes are so great. Molly received her NW2 title last September. We are hoping to be able to get her NW3 this summer. We spend winters in Mexico which meant before being introduced to Kim’s online classes, summers were the only time we had input from other like minded sniffers. Looking forward to another great class.

      • #4620
        Kimberly Buchanan
        Keymaster

          Great to have you and Molly back again, Linda! I’m guessing you’re enjoying the weather in Mexico much more than your pals in Alaska! ๐Ÿ™‚

          Kimberly Buchanan
          Joyride K9 Dog Training

        • #4642
          Linda Bath
          Participant

            Glad to be back. The weather is much nicer for sure. The next few days we are at one town over visiting. Large garden areas will be interesting to set up some search areas where I know there haven’t been before.

          • #4690
            Linda Bath
            Participant

              Interesting search. Took Molly a long time to find all the hides, 6 minutes, but she was working the room the whole time. The anise hid on the chair closest to the fan was the easiest to find. I am assuming it is because the fan was higher and the hide was in a little pocket that might have let it pool there more. The middle hide was on the table leg. I saw her catch odor, but not be able to pin it down. The hardest for her was the birch hide on the chair hide, which was almost a threshold hide. She kept looking for it at the red cooler, where the scent was pooling from the fan. Molly appeared to pin it down from the back side (was her body helping block the fan?) and then did alert. I may have gave it to her quickly, but felt she knew it was there.
              After the search was over, my friend the videographer, told me she had essential odors up on the counter between the rooms. One had a bit of cloves in it.

            • #4715
              Kimberly Buchanan
              Keymaster

                Hi Linda – It seems you may have been a little bit unclear of the lesson for this first exercise. The hides were supposed to be all in a line with the dog entering the search area on one end and the fan at the opposite end so ideally each of the odors would be blowing on each other and towards the dog as they began the search. What you set up was more of a triangular pattern with an elevated fan (so yes, you are correct I think, the first hide in that pocket of dead air allowed Molly to find that one easily). This is a much more advanced challenge that Molly isn’t quite ready for. The good news is that she kept working and did eventually solve it! ๐Ÿ™‚

                What I would suggest is to set up this first search again and try to position the hides so they are all in a single line (at the same low level) with the fan blowing all the hides towards the door so when Molly enters the search they’re all coming in her direction. Try that and see if she can work that problem. ๐Ÿ™‚

                Kimberly Buchanan
                Joyride K9 Dog Training

              • #4722
                Linda Bath
                Participant

                  Yes, I re read the directions this morning before your comment and went, Oh Oh! We are back home so it will be easier to set up this scenario. Poor girl was exhausted after that one!

                • #4725
                  Kimberly Buchanan
                  Keymaster

                    Haha! No worries! Like I said, the GOOD thing is that Molly kept working! She was as really good sport about it! Just need to simplify for her a little bit. ๐Ÿ˜‰

                    Kimberly Buchanan
                    Joyride K9 Dog Training

                  • #4774
                    Linda Bath
                    Participant

                      Second take on all in a ducks in a row.
                      Three odors at floor level in a row. ๐Ÿ™‚ Anise on the wall behind the basket. Cloves middle hide on the chair. Birch on the second hide in front of the fan.
                      Molly comes in and goes straight for the birch in front of the fan. Turns back to find the Anise, then works the room for the cloves. I believe she caught odor several times, but had to come at it from a different direction and rule out the other hides.
                      Cloves is the one we have the least experience with.
                      Should I have rewarded Molly for going back to the hides she already found? Especially when she pawed? Watching the video I realized she was rewarded as much for finding it as for pawing.
                      Note: my roommate was cooking in the same room while we were doing this search. Onions and garlic didn’t seem to phase her.

                    • #4778
                      Kimberly Buchanan
                      Keymaster

                        Much better!! Molly looks so happy! ๐Ÿ™‚

                        Very nice to see her quickly solve the first two problems. It’s really hard to say why the third hide gives her more of a challenge. It looks like the fan should have been blowing that hide. Was it blocked somehow so less odor escaped? Regardless, she kept working and did get that last hide in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe it is because she’s not as familiar with that odor. If that’s the case, that will come, no worries. It will be interesting to see how she does on the next search.

                        As for paying again for going back to a previous hide. Really you want to look at the reason the dog goes back. Sometimes it’s because they just want to be paid again. (I wouldn’t pay for that because I want the dog to keep hunting.) Sometimes it’s because the air currents and converging odors bring them back to a previous hide. (That could go either way depending on the dog’s enthusiasm to keep searching.) Sometimes it’s because the dog has exhausted all other possibilities and goes back for reassurance. (I would definitely pay that again. I want the dog to know “yes, you’re working well, good job! Keep it up!”)

                        This location is much better for this set of searches. As I’ve mentioned on other threads, you could just use dining chairs in a row for the next exercise with low/med/hi hides in front of a fan if that works best for the next exercise. ๐Ÿ™‚

                        Kimberly Buchanan
                        Joyride K9 Dog Training

                      • #4779
                        Linda Bath
                        Participant

                          Thank you for the clarification for paying. As Molly isn’t a super confident dog, I will keep paying to build up her confidence. At the same time I will watch for her playing me to get paid. ๐Ÿ™‚
                          Thie next hide I am going to put the clove closest to the fan as that seems to be the easiest for her to find.
                          Much easier location!

                        • #4788
                          Linda Bath
                          Participant

                            All the ducks in a row low to high. First hide was on chair leg (cloves), middle on chair seat (birch), high on chair back, (anise). This seemed pretty straight forward for her. By the time we got to this video it was our fourth try, with breaks between. No problem with Molly, but did have some technical problems with video. Needed to unload some space for the IPad. I have short clips that were very interesting, but not all three hides in one video. I also forgot to turn off the overhead fan in the first video.
                            Molly worked well while still checking the whole room. I tried to hold her in the line, but she still wanted to work the perimeters.

                          • #4822
                            Kimberly Buchanan
                            Keymaster

                              Good job, Molly!

                              I think if you look at your “start” process and where the first hide was, Molly wasn’t quite ready to start the search. I imagine the opening/closing of the front door changed the way odor was moving so she probably was at a bit of a disadvantage to detect especially the first hide. I think after coming in the front door she was a little unclear where odor was coming from and she’s gotten pretty adept at working the perimeters. In this space what you could try is taking her into the kitchen until the air movement has settled then take her back to the door and start when you know she’s caught odor.

                              The other suggestion I have is for you to stand back rather than walking forward into the space. It worked well to use body pressure to move her OFF of a hide she’s found and continue searching but your body pressure could also move her too fast in an area where you want her to be thoughtful like a threshold.

                              So we see Molly off-course a little bit but when she gets back on track she seems to notice the middle hide but I think she’s on the opposite side of where the hide is located. Instead of completing that problem she decides the high hide is more important (or stronger from her position) and heads there. She seems to work off some of the other furniture pieces to the middle hide and then works back to the hide furthest from the fan. I find it interesting that she gets that one from the UP-WIND side. Curious!

                              Nice to see her efficiency once we get her back on track. ๐Ÿ™‚

                              Kimberly Buchanan
                              Joyride K9 Dog Training

                            • #4848
                              Linda Bath
                              Participant

                                High to low search. High search is Anise, medium is Birch, and low is cloves.
                                As suggested I brought Molly into the kitchen and took a minute to set her up for the search. She did seem to stay on course with only a small deviation in the living room. All in all I thought it was a nice search.
                                Watching the video I see on the high hide that I could have waited to reward her. My thoughts at the time were she knew where it was, just wasn’t sure how to get to it, which is why I moved her to the actual hide to show Molly she could access it. If this would have been in a trial I would have probably called it wrong.
                                Your thoughts?

                              • #4860
                                Kimberly Buchanan
                                Keymaster

                                  Well, the first thought is to not worry about what would be a good call in trial. Training hides are different. We’re exposing the dogs, not testing. ๐Ÿ™‚

                                  The second thought is to look at the placement of the high hide and where Molly began her search. Considering there is a fan blowing, where do you think the odor is going in relation to Molly? The middle hide is calling her, clearly, but she seems to ignore the high hide.

                                  With the low & middle hides pretty close together I thought it interesting that she got the middle hide on the bucket but didn’t go directly to the low hide from there. You did a good job of rewarding her and stepping back out of the way to let Molly decide where to go. I thought for sure she would head to the table leg but instead she moves around the coffee table, to the fan and seems to catch odor but remember she “found it” on the bucket so goes there instead. (?)

                                  Molly then checks the bucket but doesn’t ask to be paid again, works the objects in the row and notices the high hide on the stool. Based on how she reacted when she began the search it seems odor wouldn’t be dropping much but here it looks that way since she seems to be catching it under the seat. I’m not sure what to think about this? Maybe the fan isn’t actually reaching the high hide so rather than blowing over her head at the threshold which was my initial thought, maybe it was fairly stationary?

                                  I believe paying her when you did on the stool was a good choice! ๐Ÿ™‚ She said “it’s up here” and that’s what you want to reward. You took the reward to source and down to her. Perfect. ๐Ÿ™‚

                                  So on this last hide (low) it seems there is a little niche that is collecting odor. We see Molly go there at (1:57) and work directly back to the corner of the rug and the hide.

                                  Overall a successful search but very interesting in the way odor moved in the space. Do you have any additional thoughts about it?

                                  Kimberly Buchanan
                                  Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                • #4941
                                  Linda Bath
                                  Participant

                                    In this search I used Anise on the point hide (basket in the rug). Closest to start line is Birch on the leg of the rattan chair. Cloves is on the back arm of the other rattan chair.

                                    Molly heads straight to the Anise and alerts on it. She then moves towards the cloves, walks by it into the corner, turns and comes back to alert on that hide. She then returns to the first hide, turns back to the cloves, checks the wall behind the chest, turns and continues along the TV stand. Head snap at the door of the stand and directly to the birch hide.

                                    In watching the video I am still slow to reward. On the second hide she alerted close to it and continued as if she was in alert after I had rewarded her. I then made the decision to let her find it again as she was expecting another treat. Once she did, I rewarded her and moved on. Last find was sweet. Could clearly see she was on odor and where she became sure of herself.

                                  • #4955
                                    Kimberly Buchanan
                                    Keymaster

                                      It was a little hard to determine if there was much merging of odors tho’ it looks like there may have been at the last hide. Molly heads to the back of the room and uses that back wall, notices the 3rd hide and heads in that direction. You can see her “check” herself with a slight head movement towards hide #2 (1:39) but is very sure where #3 is located. Good work, Molly!

                                      I think for this search I’d have squared up and moved forward the low hide to be a bit more centered with the two higher hides and the fan in alignment. The fan is a bit off-center here, so I’m not sure how much is converging with the hides on the chairs. Still, there is air movement and we see Molly working to the low hide from the threshold so you know there is odor blowing in that direction. ๐Ÿ™‚

                                      Good work Miss Molly!

                                      Kimberly Buchanan
                                      Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                    • #4964
                                      Linda Bath
                                      Participant

                                        Should I redo this exercize?

                                      • #4988
                                        Kimberly Buchanan
                                        Keymaster

                                          You could do it for your own information but you don’t need to do it for review. Feel free to move onto the next part. ๐Ÿ™‚

                                          Kimberly Buchanan
                                          Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                        • #4996
                                          Linda Bath
                                          Participant

                                            This search I am embarrassed to post, but it was a training session for me to the max. I never should have left the carpet and basket in this area, as that is where the hides were before. Also, the word no was used! More than once! It is a wonder Molly can even find a hide with her handler.
                                            Despite all that she did find the odors, though the last one I showed her where it was as it was too confusing. Residual odor was very strong on the rug.
                                            The fan was situated to blow the odor off of the high chair over to the other odors. I think the odor from the chair was pooling along the wall with the lamp and bowl near the start. The wicker odor was pooling in the cabinet. Not sure about the odor on the Chest. I think she walked into that one even though she was on odor the whole search.
                                            What do you see?

                                          • #5017
                                            Kimberly Buchanan
                                            Keymaster

                                              One thing I would ask a handler when they show their dog the hide is, “What was the dog’s learning?”

                                              Even tho’ we have these lessons and objectives you always want to support your dog’s learning and not all dogs are going to get all hides! That’s ok! ๐Ÿ™‚ So even tho’ we sometimes “help without helping I think I would have just had Molly leave with success and then reset and try the search in a different way the next time (no rug or basket). ๐Ÿ™‚

                                              Kimberly Buchanan
                                              Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                            • #5039
                                              Linda Bath
                                              Participant

                                                Kim do you mean just letting her alert on the rug, knowing that there was odor there, then leaving the search and redoing it?

                                              • #5042
                                                Linda Bath
                                                Participant

                                                  Hides are cloves in bag, anise on fan, and birch on railing. They were cooked for two hours with all the fans off and doors closed.

                                                  After short wait at line Molly heads straight to the fan, but doesn’t commit. Molly then over to bag, cuing on odor but again doesn’t commit. After double checking herself, Molly moves back and then alerts on bag. Goes back to the fan and again doesn’t commit, but looks at me for affirmation. When she doesn’t get it Molly checks the stool, goes back to fan and alerts. Molly then checks the perimeter, says hello to the camera crew, goes to center and straight to odor on rail. Alert.

                                                  I feel this was a very successful search with Molly being engaged and on task.
                                                  As always I look forward to your comments.

                                                • #5078
                                                  Kimberly Buchanan
                                                  Keymaster

                                                    Molly sure did seem to be using each of the objects and surfaces in the area to work to odor. She went straight to the fan but didn’t alert. Instead she was drawn to the bag on the chair. She didn’t tell you then, either but seems to want to verify all hides before committing to any of them. You can see her especially locating the bag on the chair and the railing from the center stool. Note how she details all the way around that stool.

                                                    Also, did you notice that Molly’s head turns towards the railing/bag on chair hide as she is coming up the stairs? Good girl! ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                    Kimberly Buchanan
                                                    Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                                  • #5131
                                                    Linda Bath
                                                    Participant

                                                      Another successful search for Molly. Three odors: Birch on the pole, anise and cloves on the wall. Cooked for 45 minutes. Light breeze.
                                                      Molly went directly towards the first odor, but bypasses it to the other odor on the wall. Alert. Over to the birch. Looks like it swirled into the plant area. Molly moves towards the car and follows back to pole. Alert. Then moves over to the third hide and alerts.
                                                      Molly was alert and happy throughout the hide.
                                                      I found another videographer, as my last one went back to Alaska. Hopefully will get the rest done today and tomorrow.

                                                    • #5137
                                                      Kimberly Buchanan
                                                      Keymaster

                                                        Molly did a great job! The birds chirping make it sound so tropical but it looks like it’s indoors?

                                                        ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                        Kimberly Buchanan
                                                        Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                                      • #5140
                                                        Linda Bath
                                                        Participant

                                                          Ha ha it is outdoors. There is an overhang from the second story of the house, which until you mentioned being indoors I hadn’t really thought about. This would affect how the wind is. The black wall is actually the gate to the street.

                                                        • #5141
                                                          Linda Bath
                                                          Participant

                                                            This search is in an outside hall from a hotel. Two hides are on pillars at around 12″ up. The third odor is on the wall. One each of birch, cloves, and anise.
                                                            Molly went straight to the first hide on far pillar and alerted. The wind was possibly blowing from that direction. She then turned back to the second odor and alerted. At this point I was wondering if she actually was seeing them, not sniffing. Molly was then stuck between the two hides on the pillars going back to alert. I almost gave her a treat on the second pillar because she came at it from a different direction and may have believed it was a different hide.
                                                            Molly finally goes to the far door to check out the wall. Appears to catch odor at the window, moves up the wall past odor to the next door. Goes back and works it out. Alert.
                                                            All in all a good search. I am not sure if I am doing something different to make her go back to the original hides or if it is because these puzzles are harder than she is used to. Suggestions?
                                                            I’m going to be without internet tonight, but will be back tomorrow afternoon.

                                                          • #5145
                                                            Kimberly Buchanan
                                                            Keymaster

                                                              I think for Molly she’s just learning to sort out the different odors so she’s checking herself but also kind of hopeful that you’ll pay her again. ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                                              Take note at the times Molly swings her head around to try and locate a hide. At (:25) she’s headed for the wall hide but the column calls louder so she heads to the hide on the column. Around the (1:10) mark she notices odor at what looks to be a drain? I’m guessing each of the odors might be drawn to it and pooling. She decides to leave that area and check a bit wider but ends up back at the column. Since you don’t pay she moved on and just about the time you think she’s headed to the wall she peels off again (1:31) and goes back to the first column but doesn’t get paid. So she follows the opposite wall, then starts checking the wall with the hide and then locates the last hide.

                                                              I really don’t think the visual is making her head in any direction. It may solidify what she already knows but it doesn’t seem that she’s just using her eyes. I do think odor is merging in the middle of all 3 odors and she just needs more experience working out that type of problem. ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                              Kimberly Buchanan
                                                              Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                                            • #5164
                                                              Linda Bath
                                                              Participant

                                                                This is in close proximity to the last search. I used the wall at about 3 feet as a middle hide. Floor hide at the foot of the pillar, and the third hide at lined up with floor hide, but at two feet on a pillar, but by plants. Again I used birch, anise, and cloves. A note there is a road at the end of this hallway, which is why I wanted Molly to stay within the search area.

                                                                Floor hide was easy. Close to a past hide location and there was a breeze. I do believe Molly caught the odor of the wall hide, but went on to check out the other hides. Alerts on both the hide On plant pillar and the hide I threw in the room. (Silly me to think she wouldn’t find that one). Molly then does work out the wall hide and figures how to get to it. I would have taken any of the alerts if she had stayed on them, but I could see she was still working. Paid out as she actually went up to it.

                                                              • #5167
                                                                Kimberly Buchanan
                                                                Keymaster

                                                                  Thank you for explaining about the road, that helps to understand. It also makes me wonder if some odor wasn’t drifting that direction. When you called Molly back the first time she immediately found the column hide. The second was tucked nicely into the shrubbery. I think she did a very nice job of solving that problem. The 3rd seemed to be a bit more challenging but once she worked the wall she found it off of the chair. (I think she noticed it as early as (:40) but didn’t pick it out of the three quite yet.) I understand you wanted her to go to source but you could have paid anytime after (2:36) and then asked her for more by waiting for her to actually go to the source. Again, by “asking” I mean just waiting WITHOUT a cue (verbal or physical) to see if she decides to go directly to source.

                                                                  Question: Molly found a hide you tossed in the room. Did you remove the column hide? Was there a reason? When you did this you eliminated the converging odor problem because it was no longer competing with the other odors. For Molly’s education it would have been better (IMO) to leave the hide but put her on leash and not let her get back to that hide. Just a thought! ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                  Kimberly Buchanan
                                                                  Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                                                • #5171
                                                                  Linda Bath
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    Oh…I never thought about removing the odor from the converging odors! Good Grief! Yes I did remove it from the column after she kept going back to it. This class has been more about me learning I think than Molly! Before I forget. Thank you. It is a puzzle for me as to when to reward, but that makes sense. Reward and then wait and see if she goes directly to odor. This next video on vehicles could have used that advise as well.

                                                                    I went to a friends house that had a boat trailer, truck, and then added my truck. When I set it up the wind was blowing into the house and hopefully to the palm. It really was swirling around a bit, but I do not really see a converging odor..did I just miss it? Molly did sniff the Palm, but it may have been dog odor.
                                                                    I used three odors, birch, anise, and cloves. The second hide was easier for her to work out, but I chose to show you the first one. Just a note, today is very hot and this was in the sun.

                                                                    Molly went into the middle, past first hide over to trailer…head snap Alert. Could have caught that odor from the wind. Moved back to blue blazer. Over to red car and on to tree. Back to red car..picked up anise on tire. Molly was under the car, then followed it to tire. Alert. Moved on to the rear tire. Interested but I think it was dog smell. Past Odor on spare tire and back to trailer. Showing a total lack of enthusiasm. Back to car and I missed her head snap due to crowding and being ahead of her! Around the blazer, back to tire and tree. When she finally catches the odor she is at the door of the blazer. Follows it up and alerts. I do believe if I hadn’t been crowding her, Molly may have caught odor earlier on the rear tire.

                                                                    I am not sure there was a real converging of odor, but while writing this and the fact she went back to the tree several times makes me believe there was.
                                                                    This has been a very interesting class. I have always in the past just put out hides to look for them. Willy Nilly as it were. Now I see how important it is to ask what is your objective? What do you want out of this hide, besides an alert?
                                                                    Kim thank you. I look forward to the next class.

                                                                  • #5174
                                                                    Kimberly Buchanan
                                                                    Keymaster

                                                                      Ok, so what is converging odor? It is a phrase “made up” by Amy Herot. ๐Ÿ˜‰ It is where two odors merge or bounce off each other in a search environment. In this search, take note of Molly as she checks the side of the middle vehicle. She clearly looks to be working odor and almost works to the tire on the back, even raising her head in that direction. However it is at that point that she detects the odor on the boat trailer and it calls to her so she heads in that direction instead. Both odors were converging at the point of odor on the middle vehicle.

                                                                      Molly works out the first hide and your audience is fully entertained! ๐Ÿ˜‰ She moves thru the search area but skips that tire this time in favor of the tire on the red truck. Whether it’s converging or not, I’m not sure but let’s see what she does next. Molly definitely catches odor when she heads around the blue truck again, *almost* goes to odor at the rear mounted tire but them looks toward the hide on the trailer and moves on. You go with her but bring her back to the blue truck, again *almost* goes to the odor but then heads to the wheel on the red truck. THAT to me says there could be some odor convergence of all 3 odors at that point.

                                                                      Not so sure about any convergence at the tree, she does look to be sniffing pee, but maybe the odor from the red truck is moving in that direction. You get her working again and she starts up the side of the blue truck, exactly as she did at the START of her search and this time she work out that hide.

                                                                      Sometimes dogs need time to process what is happening with the odor. You had the added challenge of some heat and the pressure of people watching but I thought Molly did a good job. ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                      Kimberly Buchanan
                                                                      Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                                                    • #5187
                                                                      Linda Bath
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        My audience was cute. They had never seen her work before. I was impressed that Molly completely ignored the barking dog.
                                                                        Anyway, thank you again. Definition of converging odors helps as well as the break down of the search.
                                                                        Helps me see what I am looking at.
                                                                        Looking forward to the next class!

                                                                      • #5205
                                                                        Kimberly Buchanan
                                                                        Keymaster

                                                                          Oh YES, the barking dog. What a good girl she was! ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                          Kimberly Buchanan
                                                                          Joyride K9 Dog Training

                                                                      Viewing 33 reply threads
                                                                      • The topic ‘NW560M: Linda and Molly,(lab/mixed, AK & Mexico)’ is closed to new replies.