~JOYRIDE K9 *REMOTE* K9NW EDUCATION~

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    • #2934
      Kimberly Buchanan
      Keymaster

        So the topic came up as I reviewed Terry & Taku’s latest search. My comment was that Terry was “leading” Taku through the search and Terry questioned it. My thoughts didn’t come out exactly as intended, so I gave a better explanation of what I was seeing. Terry wasn’t actually “leading” Taku, but limiting his access to parts of the search area. I also commented on Gina & Kalli’s search, indicating that Gina might want to consider a little more movement to encourage Kalli to investigate other parts of the search area. So these comments bring me to this topic of discussion that I think can be valuable for all.

        How much does your dog lead the way vs. you leading the way? Why would you choose one over the other and must you limit yourself to only one method in a given search? How does this affect your search?

        Kimberly Buchanan
        Joyride K9 Dog Training

      • #2938
        Terry Wright and Kai
        Participant

          I am thinking that I lead more, especially if I know where the hides are. No I don’t think we need to limit ourselves to only one method. There are situations where you need to make sure the dog has search the whole area/containers/vehicle, so at those times you will need to do some leading, right?

          In the passed I haven’t seen Taku doing a lot of leading. He kind of looks at me, like where to now Mom.

          Terry Wright

        • #2939
          Kimberly Buchanan
          Keymaster

            Exactly, Terry! ๐Ÿ™‚

            Kimberly Buchanan
            Joyride K9 Dog Training

          • #2948
            Deb (De) Frost
            Participant

              I wonder, after watching several of Taku’s videos again, if it would be helpful as an exercise FOR TERRY, to have HER intentionally walk around the entire outside perimeter of the search area for a few searches (no need to post them – just something to think about doing at practices so that YOU remember). Maybe not even worry at first whether or not Taku is checking items, but more seeing that you BOTH manage to get around the OUTSIDE of all the containers?

              Terry, by staying in the general center area, even if Taku were the type of dog to take off independent of you, the leash really does limit how far you are willing to let him go – and Kim seems to have pegged it – one of the reasons Taku isn’t checking ALL the containers is because you aren’t really encouraging him to by walking out there beyond the containers yourself.

              I know Taku, and I realize a lot of what you do is because you are working hard to keep him invested in checking the items within the search area and not “check out” and leave the area entirely – but I also see a bit of a habit developing that you are going to need to undo (at least in container searches) as you two move forward. ๐Ÿ™‚

              Sometimes, due to air currents (or even wind if outdoors – think vehicles or exterior search – the dog is going to NEED to get to all sides of a search area/item and perhaps well beyond it before he even catches odor that he can then follow back to source. Checking a container (or whatever) from only one direction may not be enough for him to discern that odor and find the hide. Fabric containers in particular are notorious for needing to be detailed all the way around – all sides – for the dog to tag that source.

              Hope that helps! LOVE seeing Taku’s tail in the air in this search! ๐Ÿ™‚

            • #2952
              Terry Wright and Kai
              Participant

                Thanks Deb for the feedback.
                I will do some practices here at the house where I get outside the search area more with Taku.
                And please remind me at classes/practices ๐Ÿ™‚

                Terry Wright

                • #2978
                  Terry Wright and Kai
                  Participant

                    We had a practice yesterday and Deb said Taku and I did much better working the outside edges of the containers ๐Ÿ™‚

                    Terry Wright

                • #2962
                  Kimberly Buchanan
                  Keymaster

                    Yes, Deb’s got it. ๐Ÿ™‚

                    I would also consider asking Taku to check the boxes. Now, do this with CARE since showing too much attention to something might create a problem of selling the dog and you could get some falsing. But as an experiment, I might try some presentations to encourage him to investigate. NOW, keep in mind, when you do this, the moment he starts to head to the thing you asked him to check you are gradually moving AWAY from it so you don’t sell it. If odor is there he should be telling you, not the other way around. As you move away, if he stays, you go BACK to it. DO NOT STAND THERE WAITING FOR A RESPONSE!

                    (NOTE: This will conflict with the rushing in to pay advice I gave in a different post. This is another technique to experiment with.)

                    I don’t know if it will help, but with a thoughtful approach, this might encourage him to check a little harder.

                    The other thing you might try is to have 5 or 6 odors, including corners or edges and see if he takes those to you naturally without you having to do any sort of presentation. But absolutely, you need to move yourself on all sides so Taku is able to investigate the outsides of all the containers.

                    Hope that helps!

                    Kimberly Buchanan
                    Joyride K9 Dog Training

                    • #2969
                      Susanne Howarth
                      Participant

                        Along these same lines is an observation from Blackie’s and my lesson 2 video, which we did off leash. At a certain point I noticed that she was ignoring the front portion of the search area, so I moved from the back — where she had been concentrating — to the front, and next thing you knew, she was checking those previously ignored containers that she had passed by at the start. It continues to be fascinating to me how even without a leash attached, our dogs have a “mental leash” attached that encourages them to follow our lead.

                      • #2986
                        Terry Wright and Kai
                        Participant

                          I have printed this off Kim. I do want to practice this more.
                          Thanks

                          Terry Wright

                      • #2973
                        Kimberly Buchanan
                        Keymaster

                          Good observation, Sue! ๐Ÿ™‚

                          Kimberly Buchanan
                          Joyride K9 Dog Training

                        • #2982
                          Kimberly Buchanan
                          Keymaster

                            Yeah! Great to hear! ๐Ÿ™‚

                            Kimberly Buchanan
                            Joyride K9 Dog Training

                          • #2989
                            Kimberly Buchanan
                            Keymaster

                              It’s all part of knowing where you have been, what your dog has ACTUALLY searched (not just walked by) and if they’ve told you odor or no odor.

                              Kimberly Buchanan
                              Joyride K9 Dog Training

                            • #3075
                              Gina Baker
                              Spectator

                                Going back to lesson 2 for Kalli and I – dealing with leading, moving and stepping in to help. I still was not very good at moving around when we did the containers at the mock trial – there is just something about concentrating on watching her sniff with it comes to containers – it is like I am in a trance!
                                But, at the vehicles I was much better – twice she stopped and was sniffing but I was pretty sure she was not on odor, I move just a half a step and that was enough to get moving again and was able to go to the other side of the car and got it!
                                I misread the instructions for lesson 3 and thought it said on/off leash but that was lesson 2 – But lesson 3 I did step in to help, so waiting to see if I did that correctly or?

                              • #3078
                                Patti Campbell
                                Spectator

                                  I think over the past 4-6 months I’ve pretty much been letting Topper take the lead and me stay out of his way. I was doing that to stay out of his way and not influence anything while he was learning. We’re still pretty novice at this, just earned our NW1 in May. But as mentioned in another thread in this forum about our 2nd exterior search, I do think I should have walked him up on the grass to investigate from the other side. I’m just hanging out too much and think I need to move more for Topper to get him going and it would give him more to work off of, too. I’m learning, too!

                                • #3102
                                  Susanne Howarth
                                  Participant

                                    Yup. Pace. That’s a word I hear a LOT from my instructors! “You have to keep a better pace, Sue…” I get flat footed and Blackie — in particular — thinks I’m showing her where the hide is, and starts offering behaviors to “agree” with where she thinks I’ve “found” the hide.

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